by Joaquin Henson
MANILA, Philippines – Former national football coach Juan Cutillas said yesterday qualifying for the next World Cup is an impossible dream but if the Philippine Football Federation (PFF) lays down the groundwork for a development program with massive support, he estimated it will take 40 to 50 years before making it.
“I don’t want to sound un-nationalistic,” said Cutillas, who has served three terms as national coach in a span of close to 20 years. “But let’s forget about trying to qualify for the World Cup at the moment. It’s totally absurd to even think we have a chance right now. Malaysia and Indonesia can’t even get past the first round of qualifying in Asia. Malaysia is in a bracket with Qatar, Korea and Iran. If we play Korea or Japan, we’ll probably lose by four to seven goals. We don’t even have a facility that meets the standards of the AFC (Asian Football Confederation) and AFF (Asean Football Federation).”
But while Cutillas expressed pessimism, he said the PFF should take it as a challenge to start moving forward now, riding the momentum of the Azkals’ semifinal success in the recent AFF Suzuki Cup.
“Honestly, I don’t think we can win the Suzuki Cup in eight to 12 years,” said Cutillas. “Football is a religion in countries like Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand. Malaysia can bring in about 100,000 fans in the Commonwealth Stadium. Indonesia’s stadium has a capacity of close to 90,000. The support for football in those countries is almost unlimited. They have a strong local league and don’t rely on overseas players who just come and go.”
Cutillas, 70, said without widespread backing, football won’t progress in the country.
“There must be massive support from government and the private sector,” he said. “Building a competitive national team takes a long time. It requires constant international exposure. It requires a strong local league. When I coached our national team in the Suzuki Cup qualifiers in 2008, our team played only four Fil-foreigners, namely, Neil Etheridge, Jason de Jong, Chris Greatwich and Chad Gould. We beat host Cambodia, 3-2, in front of over 15,000 fans but didn’t advance because of a tiebreak rule. We were tied with Cambodia in total points and goal difference but they scored nine goals compared to our five.”
Even as Cutillas recognized the importance of reinforcing the national squad with Fil-foreigners, he said the priority is to form a pool of local players ready to be called for duty at any time.
“We should get the best 20 to 25 young, strong local players with a good build, put them together, train as a team, provide them with allowances and accommodations and expose them to competitions abroad,” said Cutillas. “We should also build our own facility, a stadium we can be proud of. We should strengthen our local league. We should go to the Visayas where there are a lot of outstanding players and recruit the best prospects. There is so much to be done.”
Cutillas said with unrealistic dreams of qualifying for the World Cup and winning the Suzuki Cup in 2012, the expectations on the Azkals will be unreasonably high. “We can’t afford to be short-sighted,” continued Cutillas. “We need a long-term development program but we need to start now while everyone is excited about football.”
Cutillas said he agreed with PFF technical director Aris Caslib in calling on schools and clubs to release players drafted for the national team. “I think schools and clubs shouldn’t stop their players from playing for the national team,” he said. “It will stunt their growth. We should all be united for the country. Once the school players graduate, where will they go? It is vital to give them options to continue playing in a strong local league. We need to provide incentives and facilities for our players.”
philstar.com
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Cutillas is right. People think we can qualify for 2014 or the 2018 WC, but thats way too soon. Sorry to say this, but the fil-foreigners are sort of a quick fix. What we really need is a strong league and development in the country like Thailand, Indonesia and other asian countries. We will never qualify or win a tournament with only the UFL and the PFF tournament.
ReplyDeleteHe is 100% correct in the assessment of the world cup. Our football is taking off a little bit. We are definitely competitive in South East Asia. But not even Asia where we have to play against countries who have players in the English Premier League. In the event we dont qualify, we risk hurting the game in terms of popularity because people might think its not so worthwhile after all. Expectation have to be managed. A lot of money has to be pumped into the sport by the public and private sector definitely for us to grow. We have to emulate whats going on in Malaysia and Indonesia in terms of the professional leagues there. The UFL is the start but also be realistic in terms of attracting sponsors. There should be a development plan for this. Where to take the league and plan on the best format.
ReplyDeleteIncentives, facilities, training and medical support (in case of injuries) is also crucial. Much needs to be done definitely and we need someone to take charge of this as these issues have been there forever but the PFF has not done much. Its a big responsibility yes, but just because it is difficult does not mean the PFF leadership will have the right to drag their feet and treat football as a milking cow. We have to have this vision in mind and make sure the PFF does not stray from the objective. Weve had enough of the leaders who instead of bringing the game forward, have managed to keep us in a stagnant situation and even worse, regressed. There should no longer be room for corruption and crab mentality politics.
Im not expecting to qualify, but I like the idea of joining the qualifiers. Its about competing and against other countries. Win or loss in the qualifiers, the team still gets my support.
ReplyDeleteFil-foreigners as quick fix? what will happened if they run out? There are generations of them all over the world, they wont run-out. As long as you have filipino blood,you play good futbol, then your qualified to play for the team.
In part his correct, we should not expect the moon yet. World Cup dreams ? Impossible dream ? Suzuki Cup , we got to the semis. If we had a home game, who knows?... Better football program we direly need to not lose the momentum. Yes coming from a concerned football coach. It's understandable. Impossible dream ? Azkals dared to dream, look what resulted from it.....Azkals will dare again to follow that star !
ReplyDeleteaetcuban@yahoo.com
Cutillas has had the chance to apply most of the things he mentions. He's been around Philippine Football for a long time and has played key roles in the development system. His record as the national team coach speaks for itself; and it doesn't say much.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Andrew. Expecting to qualify for the 2014 World Cup is too much, but let that not stop the current team from trying because those qualification games will help develop the team's character. And the experience they gain will translate to more reliability in regional competitions; AFF and AFC.
What Cutillas is saying is "the quick fix": get 20-25 locals, house them, and train them constantly.
But we already have a team that we can further strengthen! Yes, we should have a local league. But until that league can produce the quality that our present Fil-Foreigners bring to the national team, we really don't have a choice but to scout for players who have trained and competed in leagues abroad.
It might take another 40 or 50 years before we will ever reach the World Cup. But to follow what this guy says is to set us back another 20. Let's quit asking what Cutillas thinks because there are better things to do...
Just a word of caution. The US had a world cup drought of 40 years because just like us, they did not have a professional league. Like us, for a long time they would just call up a couple of players together a few weeks or less prior to the game without preparation and as a result never advanced. In 1989, they decided to form a team composed of young college players in anticipation of hosting the world cup in 1994 and trained them early. They finally made the World cup in 2000 but lost all 3 games. They used the core of this team and added a few foreign based pro players, got them together and played like a club playing numerous friendlies. They had a respectable finish in the 2nd round in 2004 leading to the creation of Major League Soccer.
ReplyDeletePretty much agree to what he says except for the timeline. If everything works out well, I can see the RP putting up a challenge for 2022 and being a serious contender for 2026 (when Etheridge will "only" be 36 yrs old, still good for a gk).
ReplyDeleteHe's not saying that the training of 25 elite locals is a quick fix. On the contrary, it's the Fil-Foreigners that are the quick fix. When there's a large, steady stream of locally produced elite players in addition to Fil-foreigners, that's when you'll see the RP pushing to be serious contenders for the World Cup. And I don't think it's going to take 40 years to do that, inept PFF management or not. I believe we've reached critical mass for football to progress to the next level; we're no longer stuck in a rut.
corrections:
1. US lost all three games in the 1998 (not 2000) world cup.
2. They didn't just have a "respectable" finish in 2002 (not 2004). Getting to the 2nd round of the knockout stages (final 8) is an excellent finish to any team save the most elite. In the 2nd round game, they outplayed Germany and there was a non-call handball that would've gone into the German net. I wouldn't call that just respectable.
cjeagle,
ReplyDeleteBut to compare the Philippines with the US is absurd. For one, the demographics is vastly different. Then there is also the question of their advances in sports science, among other things. Then there is the pressure to perform because as hosts, they already qualify for the 1994 World Cup. Then there is the US Federal Reserve.
Simply put, we have different resources from the Americans and we're operating under different circumstances. Do exercise caution when trying to draw parallels between the two nations.
xyz1000,
ReplyDelete"He's not saying that the training of 25 elite locals is a quick fix. On the contrary, it's the Fil-Foreigners that are the quick fix."
Yes that's what he said. But in reality, what he said is the quick "fix"; as in "the match has been fixed."
We have a performing national team that has a lot of potential right now. We have every opportunity to strengthen it by doing many tiny things in different areas, including fielding the team in the World Cup Qualifiers so that they gain the experience.
This guy is saying, "to hell with that! Let's get 20-25 local guys and train them. But let's not send them to play in competitions that really matter, only in small games; because we don't have a chance anyway."
If you've followed the national team for a long time, you will know that Cutillas has tried implementing this plan already. And the records of past national teams, particularly those handled by him or by ex-players that he handled, speak for themselves.
History tells us that this kind of reserved, purist philosophy leads to failure.
I guess we will just have to disagree. You're stretching a lot of what Cutillas says in the post to the point where it no longer reads like what's he's saying. And I stand by my assertion that the Fil-foreigners are a quick fix, meaning that they have brought the Azkals to a high level very quickly that otherwise wouldn't be achievable with locals alone. But make no mistake, if the Azkals are to take it to the next level of being serious contenders, more specifically to be in the top 8 of the AFC, then they will have to significantly develop local talent in addition to harnessing the best Fil-foreigners. Actually I don't see the RP being in the AFC top 8 until they reach the point when local players are being exported to play in the world's top leagues.
ReplyDeleteI have been following the national team since probably before 2000 and I've never heard of an elite academy for the national team player pool. Maybe that's just my limited information, but do tell if there was/is such a thing. I know that PFF in the past has refused to participate in World Cup qualifiers because of the cost and the slim chance of advancing, and I'm not entirely in disagreement with that. Tournaments like the Tiger Cup (Suzuki cup), local FA development, the women's program, all require funding and it's a matter of priority which get the funds. Now that there's a larger following of the team, there's more commercial opportunities, presumably there will be more funds, and the team is better, then of course we have to participate in the world cup qualifications.
Comparing the US to the RP in matters of soccer is not absurd. As a matter of fact the similarities are eerie. cjeagle already mentioned some of them:
ReplyDelete1. US had a dark ages era of 40 years. The RP is just coming out of its own dark ages of maybe 70 years.
2. No professional league in US during that time. Same with RP and it's still true.
3. The US had Gonsalves; the RP had Alcantara.
4. The US relied on US-foreigners to advance the team; ditto RP, and even to a larger extent.
5. US primary sport is not soccer but basketball, football, and baseball; RP primary sport is basketball.
6. US historically had regions of soccer stronghold -- St. Louis, pockets in the east coast, etc.; RP has soccer stronghold in the Visayas.
The one significant difference is that soccer has been the fastest growing (kid participating) sport in the US since the 80s. There are suburban leagues for kids all over the place. Nothing of the sort can be said for the RP. When the kanto boys start playing soccer in the streets, that will be progress.
If Chelsea became Champions through "QUICK-FIX" then let's do it that way. Manchester City is also a quick-fix.
ReplyDeleteI think there is nothing wrong in getting players who played abroad. Ji-Sung Park of Korea and EPL. Robin Van Persie of Netherlands and EPL. Cesc Fabregas of Spain and EPL.
Most World Cup qualifying teams did not get where they are right now without players playing abroad.
Its our best choice right now. Let's do It and continue doing so. While slowly improving our local leagues.
Thanks xyz. Sorry about the mixup in the years. I think I was still a little hangover when I wrote that.
ReplyDeleteOf course there would be differences in the US experience to ours. We don't have the finances, growing soccer base(which by the way started during the era of the defuct NASL) or the football loving immigrant population which help sustain soccer in the US during the lean years.
I just wanted to point out as xyz mention that we can learn a lot from mistakes made during those dark ages. The US had no corporate backing in those days and could only afford calling up players a few weeks or a few days before the match which is similar to our experience. When they did play, they played mostly in front of a small crowd of which predominantly will be backing the opponent(the latter still happens today BTW). Broadcasters never televised those games. In fact you had to go to a bar with satellite Tv to watch the World cup. Just like the Azkals they had to scrap to find support from diff. sources incl. their own.
The big chance happened when they got professional manageers who had business experience to the run the USSF. Alan Rothenberg became president and along with his knowledgeable colleagues wrote the blueprint that led the US out of the soccer wilderness.
The big chance in the US was when they got
That is where Mr. Dan Palami steps in. His managerial experience as CEO of his company has paid dividends in the way our men's team is being run. Now if only the rest of the PFF could chart a long term plan like the US did, to popularize the sport at the grassroots level and most importantly form a truly professional league where we can develop our players, only then can we compete. Our colleges or youth teams are not enough. As the US learned, in order to compete at World Cup level, we must have professionals teaching professionals.
ReplyDeleteIn the meantime we must rely on our foreign based players to be competitive and yes if we can attract the right mix players who are playing in the top flight leagues in Europe even compete for a spot in the World Cup.
A good start would be to convince our foreign based player when they are finished with their careers to consider coaching in our future pro league. By transferring their experience and technical expertise to the younger players we can form a sustainable foundation for developing world class players right at home.
ReplyDeletexyz1000,
ReplyDeleteWho's stretching what? Cutillas wasn't talking about creating an academy, he was talking about continuing with the present selection and retention process for national teams (which is followed even outside of football): training, housing, allowances, etc. A process that has been used since Marcos was around. Nobody said anything about academies.
He also explicitly said, "But let’s forget about trying to qualify for the World Cup at the moment." Qualifications start in July, not a long time from now. If we forget qualification for a moment, then he is saying that we shouldn't even let the Azkals out (pardon the pun) in July. If you see another meaning in that, then please explain.
Of course, actually making it to the 2014 tournament is unrealistic; but if we do not let the Azkals play, how do we assess and improve their qualities so we can make it farther the next time that we try?
This guy (and apparently, you) effectively said that until we have a league and that it produces quality players, then we shouldn't even try. We should just concentrate on making the league better.
No league is going to survive, much less thrive, without public patronage because without patronage, it makes no sense for advertisers and sponsors to bring money to the league to promote their products. But what you don't seem to realize is that football right now is enjoying some kind of public support because the Azkals tried and did well in their last outing.
To follow Cutillas in preventing the Azkals from going out again and trying again (because of the probability of failure somewhere in the qualification stages) is to drive away the public that they've won over. Again, no public, no league, back to obscurity football goes, and football players will just have to make do with festivals instead of continuous competition.
--
Regarding the US-RP comparison. All the similarities you mentioned are trivial; and sports development cannot be supported by trivia. Sports development is supported by real resources and real economic capabilities.
Right now, neither the PFF nor the government can bankroll a lasting developmental program. This has to be done by the private sector. But again, why would the private sector take any interest in any program if it does not enjoy wide public support? And why would the public support any football development program if it can cheer for and hope with its Azkals?
xyz1000,
ReplyDeleteThe similarities between the US and RP are trivial. Real sports development is fuelled by real resources and real economic capabilities, not trivia.
As cjeagle says, "We don't have the finances, growing soccer base or the football loving immigrant population which help sustain soccer in the US during the lean years."
Can we learn something from the US? Of course! Better yet, maybe we can ask for assistance. But to make a direct comparison between our situations on the basis of coincidences? It's absurd.
cjeagle,
ReplyDelete"A good start would be to convince our foreign based player when they are finished with their careers to consider coaching in our future pro league. By transferring their experience and technical expertise to the younger players we can form a sustainable foundation for developing world class players right at home."
True. Of course, the Younghusband brothers have already started contributing to this now. We can only hope that they continue and that more players will do much of the same thing in the future.
xyz1000,
ReplyDeleteWho's stretching what? Cutillas wasn't talking about building an academy; he was talking about recycling the old system where NSAs select, train, house, and meagerly pay national team players. This has been the norm since the Marcos era. Nobody's talking about building academies here.
But he did explicitly say this,"let’s forget about trying to qualify for the World Cup at the moment. It’s totally absurd to even think we have a chance right now." The qualifiers start mid-year. I can't see any other way to interpret that except, "let's not even try."
If you have any other interpretation, please share it.
xyz What I meant was that the US made the world cup first in 1990 after 40 years and lost all 3 games and then hosted 1994 where they made the 2nd round. I agree about the 2002 team being unlucky not to have beaten Germany.
ReplyDeleteThe Azkals will not move up 120 spots in the FIFA rankings and earn a spot in the World Cup in the foreseeable future. However, not entering the the tournament is a loud and clear signal. It tells 10 year olds not to bother playing football because there is no future in it. It tells Filpinos playing football overseas not to bother with the MNT and WNT because they will never play an important match against a world class opponent. If we do not allow ourselves to dream of glory, we will never achieve glory. The foreign based players don't come because of money.They all sacrifice to play for their country. They want to play in the World Cup or Olympics. If that dream is unreachable they want to play in the qualifiers and play China, Japan, Australia, or Korea.
ReplyDeleteKilling the World Cup dream may seem practical but Football feeds on dreams. Killing the dream will kill football.
Anonymous,
ReplyDelete"It tells 10 year olds not to bother playing football because there is no future in it. It tells Filpinos playing football overseas not to bother with the MNT and WNT because they will never play an important match against a world class opponent."
Precisely.
And that is why I said that what Cutillas said is THE QUICK FIX because his idea ensures failure and it defeats the sense of competition in football.
Just because the US is a member of the first world and we the third doesn't mean we can't learn from their experience. The US at one time in the world of football was a member of the third world. Just like us political infighting was the bane of soccer in the US and was the reason along with the Great Depression the American Soccer League collapsed in the 1930s. Using words like absurd and then just making general statements without logically backing up your argument doesn't really help you make your case. You are out of order mister. (-?
ReplyDeleteAs for joining the World Cup qualifying even though I would have wanted us to participate, I don't really enjoy seeing inflated numbers being scored against us and neither would those 10 year olds you mentioned. We had make realistic choices because of our limited budget.
ReplyDeleteHaynako.
ReplyDeleteHindi mo na kailangang sabihin na unrealistic ang World Cup dreams ng Azkals dahil obyus na yan. Pero hindi iyon ibig sabihin na hindi na susubukin ng Azkals na makaabot agad sa World Cup.
May kasabihan nga...
"Aim for the moon. If you miss, you will fall amongst the stars."
I really admired Cutillas for being there til the progress of the sport.
ReplyDeleteBut all these stuffs were because of the lack of financial backing. Who wants to be a footballer without a good pay? This is what we lack.
20 years ago, Everybody wants to be a basketball player because of the chances of playing in the national league and that is a so called ambition. Before just a little portion of the community wants to play football and that is because of money. Filipinos are living everyday for survival and I didnt think its impossible playing in the world cup if we only had a stable economy 20 years ago.
As for this moment, only the rich people can afford to play this sport provided with everything. Majority of the people dont even have the money just to buy their kids a nice dress and a delicious food.
What Im saying is, its possible to be in the world cup, or win the suzuki cup nor any international cup if theres a REAL financial support here. Philippinos can perform their best everywhere but the first thing is to provide an overwhelming budget so that at this period the players and the people will see this sport as an ambition and much more likely the idea we had in basketball.
Phillipinos can trained 24/7 hours a day. Look at the other countries except Brazil, people are playing football even in the hottest period of the day. We trained like the Brazilians and if you look around esp with our neighboring countries, they werent practicing it everyday. This is always been at our advantage.
More government help is needed here.
I hate to admit it but majority of the people are poor. But dont you think its the poor who made this country alive until now?
ReplyDeleteI want to see more poor children playing football from now on if it is possible to survive playing the sport. We can win the world cup, I want to be in the world cup...
Everythings is a dream and survival.
PACQUIAO AND REYES WERENT THERE IF THERE PARENTS WERE RICH.
I would say equality for all and more money to for the poor.
anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteThe similarities between the US and RP are trivial. Real sports development is fuelled by real resources and real economic capabilities, not trivia.
Can we learn something from the US? Of course! Better yet, maybe we can ask for assistance. But to make a direct comparison between our situations on the basis of coincidences? It's absurd.
===========
If soccer development is based on "real resources and real economic capability," then why did the US have its soccer dark ages during the 40s, 50s, and 60s, the time when its economic prowess was greatest and with plenty of resources? Why can Slovakia beat China?
It's not trivia here, it's history, and it's looking at a model for soccer development. If the RP is to have good development, it's not enough to throw "resources" at it and watch it grow. Now that would be mad and absurd. It has to look at what model works and what doesn't. It has to study what situations apply and what doesn't.
Now that we have a competitive team, we should certainly try to qualify for the World Cup. This would make it more attractive for foreign based players to join our team and would inspire kids at home to take up the sport as it did me when I was watching the World Cup in grade school. It is probably unrealistic to expect us to qualify for the WC in 2014 but I wouldn't call it impossible as Mr. Cutillas said. With the right mix of players in the top flight leagues of Europe playing for our team, we can certainly make a go for it. New Zealand and North Korea made it and neither of them had the pedigree or elite player base to expect them to compete. We just need to use a system that will play to our strengths. We cannot emulate the way the Spanish play but neither did New Zealand or North Korea.
ReplyDeleteBTW I couldn't understand how Mr. Cutillas could say that we cannot win the Suzuki Cup in 12 years. Our current team without the German players(Schrock, Ott, Drinkuth, etc.) or former Bundesliga players Dennis Cagara or Jerry Lucena, gave the Indonesians a scare without even having a home game. The eventual champion Malaysia also lost their away game to Indonesia 2-1. Imagine what would have happened if we had a home game plus those missing Fil-Euros. Our Pinoy diaspora give us a fighting chance guys in Asia.
ReplyDeleteCutillas' dismal record as national coach speaks for itself. He has experienced mostly losses during his tenure, thus he forgot how it feels to win. Consequently, he's afraid for our national team to try qualifying for the WC for fear of being "embarrassed."
ReplyDeleteGranted that the path to WC qualification is akin to climbing Mt. Everest, but we'll never know if we can reach the summit until we try. Our current team doesn't reflect Cutillas' character as evidenced by what they achieved in Suzuki Cup. Despite great odds, our players believe that even with less than a 5 percent chance of qualifying, as long as there is that chance, they will go for it. All our players/coaches want is a chance to prove to themselves and to everyone else what they can do on the field instead of being prevented in trying because someone doesn't believe in them.
Someone once said, “Impossible is a big word thrown around by people who find it easier to live in the world they've been given than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It's an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It's a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing.”
Cutillas's analysis of realistic goals for the team is off and underachieving. It may have been prudent to skip world cup qualification 15 years ago, but not today. He is bonkers if he thinks it will take us 12 years to win the Suzuki Cup -- I think we can be contenders from now on.
ReplyDeleteBut you can't be too harsh on this coach and blame his record as solely his doing. Fifteen years ago I don't think even a Mourinho or an Alex Ferguson would be able to build a successful RP team. It takes more than a coach.
Bottom line: He is NOT the coach or adviser we need now.
Gotta love the enthusiasm in some of theses posts and since its a new year, we really should look for good things to come.
ReplyDeletesome key points to consider for our PHL Football team success.
1.Develop the UFL
A full functioning and competitive semi-pro to pro league is the key to maintaining a fan base (which generates support both in games and as a revenue stream) as well as a player base. If the top players are playing all year round for their club teams, they will eventually improve as football players. Plus, if there's a domestic league, you'll have little league soccer players growing up idolizing the Younghusbands of this world and not just the Asi Taulavas.
2. Build on the success of the Azkals
The recent success of the Azkals have shown two things: that we can compete in South East Asia and also that we need to continue to improve if we want to get to the World Cup. As Cutillas noted, Malaysia, Indonesia and Vietnam have a hard time cracking the Asian Cup, so there is work to do. But we must always start from somewhere. As many have said, no harm in having that as an ultimate goal, with many intermediate stops along the way (Suzuki Cup, Asian Cup, then World Cup).
3. Continue to utilize fil-foreign talent all the while building the talent pool here in the Philippines. There have been a few players from the Philippines who were good enough to play abroad, whether in south east asia, east asia, the US and even in europe. The talent is abroad and the talent is here. We just have to find it and make full use of it.
All the best to the UFL and football in our country!
This is all about managing expectations as I first mentioned. I believe we should enter the WC qualifications regardless of the results but we should more importantly have the development plan in place in terms of an organized and sustainable league. If ever we fail in the WC qualifiers, then lets learn and move on. Cutillas will always be criticized for talking that way because of his record. He has been involved in Philippine football for so long precisely because there was no one else to turn to who has any international experience. I am pretty sure the PFF didnt pay him millions to stick around so i think he has done his part. I feel he is talking a lot of sense but the Philippines has not been in a situation like this. I dont think we can singularly blame him for the failures of his teams. It just proves if we dont play competitive games on a regular basis, our opponents who have all these leagues in place will beat us every time.
ReplyDeleteThe quick fix is what we have now. We dont need Cutillas to say and understand that. We can not rely forever on our fil foreigners but they will be important. In technical terms its called leap frogging. Not having to reinvent the wheel and skip a development curve. Basically these guys have benefited from their time abroad because they have been given the correct training and exposure. In reality they are not good enough to get even better training and move up to the next level. believe me, i think they are great but thats the reality. James and Phil couldnt make the cut anymore in Chelsea reserves and no one even teams from the lower leagues picked them up. If they were give more exposure who knows what they could achieve but they are reaching an age wherein they may no longer have the impetus to get to that next level. The long term solution is to have a bigger pool of players and get them competitive. And we can only do it here in the Philippines. Thats the correct way of doing things. You cant rely on the hope we will have another generation of younghusbands. Again, i believe they are heroes and have nothing but admiration for them. I am just being realistic. Hoping the football programs of other countries will hopefully trickle down to the offsprings of kids with filipino blood lines. Comon, that cant be right??! It has to be done here in the Philippines. Relying on foreign players is just like saying we shouldnt join the WC qualifiers because we are bound to lose. We are not believing in what our local footballers can do. Japan and Korea have done it. We can do it. I wont even comment on the US issue being discussed here. No way. Lets talk about what they are doing in Vietnam, Malaysia..etc.
Actually I have a lot of respect for Mr. Cutillas for staying inspite of the dismal situation in the past.
ReplyDeleteI just think his previous experiences has made him pessimistic by nature. Besides his former country Spain before the last World Cup got used to being disappointed every 4 years inspite of having the best players in the world.
The Pinoy Diaspora will give us an advantage that not too many teams in Asia have. From what I have heard there are even younger kids playing in academies like InterMilan, etc. who we can be looking forward too in the future.
The future looks bright and there is no reason why we can't be in contention from now on.
On another note, I couldnt imagine (in the Philippine setting) if a school or a club would not allow a player to be released to the national team. I cant imagine under what circumstances that could happen. How could anyone be so short sighted? why destroy the future of a player by not giving him that opportunity and that honor? Its not as if they are investing millions in the player. It will be a proud moment for any school to have a player in the national side.
ReplyDeleteI didn't say that we should be just relying on our foreign contingent to be competitive. The best scenario is to have a fully professional league where we can develop our players reinforced by players abroad.
ReplyDeleteDepending on college and youth teams is not sufficient. Where will they go after they graduate? We must have professionals teaching other professionals.
The UFL is great but in its current state it is nothing more than a semi pro league. We need players training 5 times a week with a game every weekend for players to reach their full potential. If possible we should also have reserve teams to push the first team players to play their best.
However the UFL is a step in the right direction and is the best that we have at the current time so we should support it the best that we can.
xyz1000,
ReplyDelete"If soccer development is based on 'real resources and real economic capability,' then why did the US have its soccer dark ages during the 40s, 50s, and 60s, the time when its economic prowess was greatest and with plenty of resources? Why can Slovakia beat China?"
You are grasping at straws here. Are you saying that real resources and real economic capability are irrelevant? Or are you saying that between the 40s and 60s, the US spent a lot on their soccer programs but still failed to become soccer greats? Or are you saying that RP is like the US during the 40s and 60s in terms of economic capabilities?
Slovakia and China. What does either of them have to do with the US? What do you think we can learn from either Slovakia and China? Care to provide us with more trivia?
"It has to look at what model works and what doesn't. It has to study what situations apply and what doesn't."
Clearly, you didn't look at history long enough to see what things apply and what's irrelevant. Otherwise, you will not be using historical tidbits and coincidences to support your stand. Tell us then, which of the things you previously enumerated actually speak about any viable sports development models.
You seem to be content at looking at similarities but the real challenges are in the differences, and those are what we need to overcome.
I do have a question for those more knowledgeable about the situation in the Philippines. Why don't we have a professinal league with teams based in different regions of the country? With an entrenched fan base in each region, we can form rivalries that would build upon the natural rivalries we already have bet. cities and regions. Besides most of our best players reside in the Visayas. Shouln't we be taking advantage of this situation to spark interest in the league. The way I see it support for teams based only in Manila tends to be lukewarm and fleeting. I know economics stand in the way but maybe using a low budget airline can lessen the expenses.
ReplyDeletecjeagle,
ReplyDelete"Why don't we have a professinal league with teams based in different regions of the country?"
Because local football clubs can't afford to give salaries to the players. The best that the bigger clubs who have sponsors can do is give allowances but I wager, if they had the money, they'd rather spend it on equipment and perhaps save some for medical emergencies and travel expenses for out-of-town competitions.
Well if they played in packed stadiums like they would be getting in Bacolod, plus sponsorships they would be getting from local and national businesses, they might be able to afford salaries. With increasing public interest, we might have more corporations willing to invest in the league. Have Adidas or Nike or some other ocmpany pay some of the costs in exchange for advertising which you can put up at home stadiums or on the jerseys of players.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean medical emergencies? Isn't that covered by medical insurance?
Great discussion going here. I would like to see the same intelligent discourse within the PFF and other football organizations. I truly hope they operate with more transparency and a willingness to work with individuals with energy and vision.
ReplyDeleteMany good points were brought up in the last 38 posts.
Soccer development should not be limited to the UFL or a pro league. They are a good start but still have a long ways to go. I'd like to see more 6 to 12 year olds playing in an expansive community-based recreational league. Who should spearhead this? Provincial FA's of course. No more selections as is the current practice in most kids leagues. FIFA espouses a club system and that is what is missing and that is what we should be building. OK, we have provincial clubs that probably represent the city they are based in. But what about the other cities in their respective provinces? I'd like to see more individual city recreational clubs and premier/elite clubs that cross provincial barriers.
Let me share some specifics about the USA and how they got to where they are, and how wildly successful USS and USYS are in generating interest in football and their national program. To name a few, a) towns and cities provided facilities which were built and maintained through taxpayer money. So public funding is an untapped solution in the RP. b) Volunteerism is very strong in the american culture. City and town clubs are non-profit and run pro-bono by an elected board. Can this work in the Philippines? c) thousands of these clubs pay fees to USYS which does the job of promoting and organizing higher level tournaments etc. Non-existent with the PFF. To expect the PFF to generate operating funds off only 36 provincial FA's is absurd. d) they had a state-based ODP, olympic development program, which now has transformed into their US Soccer Devt Academy composed of about 70 elite clubs (U15 and U17 or pre-college age). This represents 4000+ of the best young men in a country of 300 million. That is one heck of a pool.
So that's the dynamism that our grassroots model should emulate.
A two-pronged effort, one at pro-league level and one at the grassroots level, is a good start to building a robust football industry.
China has a large spectator football following and a league that is well attended. According to friends, football is the most popular spectator sport. There are large stadiums in many places and there is a relatively active government support. In other words, there are "resources." Add to that the largest population in the world and you'd think that they would be able to produce a consistently good national team. They don't.
ReplyDeleteSlovakia is a small country, small football stadiums, but a rich football history that is aligned with the Czech Republic. They beat Italy in the World Cup.
My point is that economic resources are not the only thing that makes for a good team. Should we emulate Slovakia in terms of football development? I don't think so. The situational difference is so large that to model the RP development to Slovakia's would be ridiculous.
That's all I'm going to say on continuing the discussion with the anonymous poster.
As I said, we can learn a lot from the US experience even at the grass roots level. However I just wanted to point out that the state based ODP program was flawed from the start with inherent biases geared towards the white suburban population while ignoring more talented but less physically developed minority kids. The Academy model of elite clubs with their emphasis on developing technique rather than winning at all cost mentality that used to prevail was much better and are producing players with better technical and tactical skills. The only problem in relation to the Philippine situation is that clubs or academies require a certain amount of money which I am not sure a lot of kids can afford.
ReplyDeleteAs for Stadiums, aside from the Panaad Stadium in Bacolod, we will have a newly renovated Rizal Memorial stadium in Manila. Football stadiums were also being planned in Davao. Since there very little space in Manila, maybe the national govt. can sponsor a national stadium in Clark to hold the truly big events which in the meantime can host a local pro team. The local govt. in Cebu which is the 2nd biggest city in our country can also build one. This could serve as basis for a truly national professional league.
ReplyDeletecjeagle,
ReplyDelete"Have Adidas or Nike or some other ocmpany pay some of the costs in exchange for advertising which you can put up at home stadiums or on the jerseys of players."
Easier said than done.
"What do you mean medical emergencies? Isn't that covered by medical insurance?"
Lol. We're talking about the Philippines here, medical insurance here doesn't work the way it does in other countries.
xyz1000,
ReplyDelete"My point is that economic resources are not the only thing that makes for a good team. Should we emulate Slovakia in terms of football development? I don't think so. The situational difference is so large that to model the RP development to Slovakia's would be ridiculous."
And you think that we should emulate the US instead even if our situations are just as different? How ridiculous is that?
"That's all I'm going to say on continuing the discussion with the anonymous poster."
You're just as anonymous as I am. But what does that have to do with anything?
You can't succeed unless you try. If enough kids start playing football bec. of the Azkals success, they are going to start looking to buy football gear(shoes, shirts, etc.) The sports companies (NIke and Adidas) might suddenly find a nascent market about to explode and can decide it might be a good idea to have their logo on team jerseys and home stadiums. This in turn can be used to provide the seed capital for our proposed professional league.
ReplyDeleteBTW instead of just finding fault in anything we say Mr. Anonymous, maybe you can instead propose constructive ideas for helping football grow in our country or somebody might start calling you Mr. Crab Mentality.
cjeagle:
ReplyDeleteIn my experience ODP was not biased towards minorities but I know that ODP, as a state selection, was biased towards talent.
The creation of clubs can and should be a very targeted activity. While the RP is poor in general, there are numerous pockets of wealth where football can grow.
If the only way that kids will play is to have a padrino that will pay or everything, then Tax laws need to be rewritten to support a more philanthropic approach to sports development. It is only fair to give back especially to big donors.
RP football must undergo a process of growth, and learning to determine what will and wont work and finally evolve into something we all can be proud of.
What I rail against, is the negative "that-wont-work-in-the-Philippines" attitude I have encountered so many times.
cjeagle and xyz1000,
ReplyDeleteYou have not been reading my posts then. I'm all for the Azkals playing in the qualifiers and every other tournament, major and minor, they can join even if their chances for success is slim to none; because regardless of the results, the team members will gain valuable experience and their appearances in competitions will help in popularizing football in the country even more. It's Cutillas who says the Azkals should NOT TRY and I'm totally against that.
Regarding this professional thing you're saying, just come home and try to manage even a small football club to experience first-hand the difficulty.
The club I manage has sponsors but the money we get from them is barely enough to pay for tournament fees and transportation. When we get extra, we save that for medical because our players sometimes get hurt and when that happens, the club shoulders what it can. It's the least we can do for our players' dedication (they get no salaries from the club). And no, medical insurance in the Philippines simply doesn't work the way it does in the US or in Europe.
It's easy to fantasize when you're in Blogspot. But the reality is, companies are not going to give us too much money until our tournaments are covered by the media; and media will not cover until the games are attended by a significant number of people.
The Azkals gives us hope because the more they compete, the more people become interested in football in general; the better they perform, the more passionate the fans become. We can only hope that some of these fans will be interested in football enough to come see the local tournaments this year so that media will actually cover the games one way or another. And maybe next year, we can ask for a bit more money from our sponsors. And the year after, maybe a bit more.
What you're saying is really "easier said than done."
What Cutillas said about forgetting the big competitions is, on the contrary, unhelpful to cash-stripped FCs that might have some raw talent but can't polish it through proper training, facilities, equipment, etc. FCs that have professional ambitions but depend on many factors firing off at the appropriate times.
If you guys really want to have a professional league in the country (as we do), then let's just support the Azkals as they are now and hope they continue to do well; even if this means getting more Fil-Foreigners for the time being.
Now apart from your fantasies and historical trivia, do you two have anything more to add?
It is way past 2 am here so I will continue this conversation tomm. However I just wanted to mention what I propose is a national league where you can get corporations to sponsor you bec. of the enlarged visibility and media attention. League such as yours do not have the economies of scale that national leagues do and unfortunately have a better chance of failing. It happens here in the US all the time as soccer is not really considered a spectator sport. Many minor leagues have tried here and are still trying but have failed and are failing right now. Just look at the lower divisions in the US. Only with the advent of MLS were they able to get the attention of the national media and the general populace to pay attention to soccer and even then during those first few years MLS was struggling. Only now are they gaining momentum and expanding. It takes time but we need to stay the course in order to see it succeed.
ReplyDeleteThats what I mean by a developmental plan. Its like a business plan one has to set up so that it wont be such a risk for private sponsorship to come in. We can start small. There is no medical insurance for players. Ive seen a lot of good players here get injured and never fully recover. This plan should provide for teams to at least provide these medical services. The rules should be comprehensive, also covering minimum salaries so at least the players can make a living. Look at the Australian model as they had a similar situation until not more than 10-15 years ago if Iam not mistaken. Thats why iam so envious of what MVP is doing for basketball. He spent 50 million once just to prepare for one tournament (which Smart Gilas failed to even get beyond the semi finals). And he continues to support the team and now they back to recruiting PBA players. Anyway, the PFF has to look at this issue of a pro league. They have to make sacrifices and set up somtething decent, not necessarily asking the sponsors to cough up millions but enough for a good start with good return of investment.
ReplyDeleteThis isnt going somewhere. Its not good to compare us with other countries.
ReplyDeleteWe can start by fixing the root, kicking out mart definitely, choose respoinsible non-corrupt patriotic football leaders, find credible sponsors, and government assistance.
Stop talking about the us,aussies,chinese,slovknz. Theyre different from us since theyre nothing in football and their history is over..
We have to focus on the main issue and stop on nonsense comments about history nor the americans. This is Philippines and this is our football and we dont give a damn if the americans call it soccer. Its just a stupid comments and football is clearly recognized all over the world.
What we do is how to help change football in the country. We can progress football if we can feed millions of dying young Phils here and that is to offer football programs scholarship if theres a clearer legitimacy of the governance of this sport.
If theres a clearer future of the sport then progress is there waiting over the corner.
Football is a business. And like any other businesses we have to start looking at football development esp. when in regards to developing a professional league, in terms of what makes financial sense.
ReplyDeleteBusiness management students study business models from throughout the world and not only from their limited parochial view inside their country or region.
When it comes to sports management, there are many models we can study throughout the world from which we can choose that might work for us.
Even in Europe there are differences in the way their leagues work. Some clubs in Europe are owned by private individuals or corporations and a few are even owned by their fans with the fans having the right to vote out team officials every few years or so.
The US Model(MLS) is a radical model based on single entity with owners having a stake in the league and not only their own club. By doing this they were able to formulate policies that would benefit the league in the long term rather than satisfying stockholders need for each club to show profit every year. They were also able to avoid practices that were inimical to the survival of the league like outbidding each other for players services beyond what makes financial sense like what you see in Europe, by instituting a hard salary cap.
Whether this works for us is debatable. They had the advantage of having deep pocketed owners who were passionate about football, from the start who were willing to accept losses in the short term in the hope of seeing a reasonable return on their investment years down the road.
The point is that we need to look at different models from all over the world, find what works for us and see it through. Unlike countries like Qatar, or Saudi Arabia we cannot just depend upon government largesse to finance our league. Of course city and govt. have a role to play in the success of the league by helping fund the stadiums that will host our team as well as possibly providing tax breaks as well.
Even in our own region, our situation is unique in that football is not the number one sport and don't have the entrenched fan base to depend upon. In many ways that makes us closer to such countries like the US or Australia where our league would have to compete with other sports for fan interest. We have a lot to learn from them as well.
As for me, I believe there is a natural rivalry among the regions that we can take advantage of.
People from the south tend to call our capital Imperial Manila. Well Catalonia and by extension Barcelona feels the same way about Castillan Madrid and by extension Real Madrid. We wouldn't have to worry about not having packed stadiums in Bacolod or Cebu when Manila comes visiting.
To make all this work, we would need committed ownership, corporate support, assistance from the govt. by providing venues for our teams and a CEO who has a proven record in successfully running major corporations.
cjeagle,
ReplyDeleteNow we're getting somewhere.
The closest thing to the MLS that we have here is the PBA, the mere existence of which clearly says that having an MLS-like model for football in the Philippines is possible.
However, there is going to be one significant obstacle. That is the football clubs. Some clubs that operate now would prefer to have a promotion-relegation system to act as an incentive to do well. I don't know how that can work in a franchise-based model since buying a league franchise entitles the club somewhat to maintain its place in the league.
The league, of course, can be picky with the members. It can choose to only accept clubs that do not desire a promotion-relegation system. But I'm afraid that it might degrade the overall quality of the game in the long run. Or at best, stagnate the overall development.
MLS like any other major league in the US have a playoff system which constitutes a second season. Those who make the playoffs play additional games whose profits they keep without having to share it with the rest of the league.
ReplyDeleteWhoever wins the playoffs which goes through several rounds of home and away games, are declared the true champions of the season.
The MLS Champion, Runners up, US Open champion and regular season leader are then invited to participate in the CONCACAF Champions League which is similar to the Asian Champions League.
Whoever wins the Champions league is then invited to participate in the World Club Championship which is the World Cup of Clubs which pits you against the likes of Barcelona and Boca Juniors etc.
The financial incentive given by FIFA for those making it to this point is huge. Since we are not as big a nation as the US, we will probably only have one slot for the Asian Champions League and that will be the Playoff Champion.
Another difference is that MLS bec. of the US large geographic size and diff. time zones, divides its teams into conferences and divisions with winners of this divisions and conferences receiving trophies and other awards.
In the Philippines case, a single table will probably make better sense. Because of the numerous incentives for those teams who do well, competition doesn't seem to be a problem and the quality of play continues to improve every year.
Promotion/Relegation has been discussed in the US but has proven unworkable at this time, bec. of national broadcasters only wanting to telecast 1st division games and signage rights by companies in the stadium being seen only in this telecasts.
It is true that you need to be picky though as you need investors who have deep pockets to make it work in the long term. MLS was not profitable for a long time and had to go through a period of contraction before it finally broke the break even mark and started expanding.
Also since I envision a national league, like in Europe you can have city and provincial governments as potential partners in such an endeavor. You would need tax payer approval to go that route though I think.
As I said, MLS is not the only model that works, but we can include elements of it in any future national professional league. At some point when financially feasible we must plan on setting up reserve teams and academies as well but that is further down the road.
I disagree with you this time hyena. It is important to follow a model. Iam just talking about setting up a viable league. Just like any business you dont need to reinvent the wheel. From other models, you can get the ides and strategies you can use and make changes to suit your situation. But a league will not survive if it does not make money for the owners. No one will pour money into football if they can not get anything in return. Palami is what you can call an angel investor. Sooner or later he is going to need a source of income to keep this team going. So far he has evaded questions on how much he has spent. But he doesnt want to disclose it because it probably is a tidy sum and as a head of a corporation himself, his business sense may be questioned. I think this is a good exercise and the PFF should listen. They have a lot of experience (if only that..heheh) and they need to be open minded and accept what is critical to the development of football and that is a professional league. Again, no other country can be successful without one.
ReplyDeleteOkay I didn't mean to scare potential investors away by my comments on the MLS situation. Their business model is sound.
ReplyDeleteIn the beginning bec. they had no stadiums of their own, they had to lease enormous American football stadiums with up to 80000 capacity which were quite expensive to rent and maintain while their average attendance was only in the range of 15000 or less. That is why they had a hard time turning a profit in those days.
They eventually build their own stadiums which were sized more to their needs and were able to control the revenue stream from signage, advertising, tickets, parking and concessions which improved their bottom line and led to the current MLS expansion today.
Also there were 4 other established sports with their own leagues in the US incl. basketball, American football, baseball and hockey which they had to compete with. In our situation we only have to deal with one, basketball.
We also have the advantage of the Azkals promoting our sport and the massive interest it has elicited in our country. The US national soccer team was mostly ignored in the US at that time.
So as you can see, if we can have the govt. providing the venues for us to play in, with advertising, tv contracts, sponsorship, and other revenue streams, setting up a professional football league is financially viable and rewarding.
Well its not nationalistically ideal to use americans as an example. It can cause us lots of trouble. Mind you were not safe having them as allays. There are lots of nice countries with nice pro leagues because everybody knows the league in U.S aint that competitive and its also not famous plus its aint interesting to watch.
ReplyDeleteBut I agree that the govt must be involved. We are really progressing since we had a new governance and the trust is high. He's starting to be like the famous Brazilian leader and thats good for our future.
ReplyDeleteMr. Cutillas maybe right it's too early to talk about our WC dreams. But if we would not start reaching for it now it may never come in the future. We only wanted to see our team in the qualifiers it will not only help our boys the needed international exposure but at least give hope to our future wannabes. We don't expect them to win in their first shot in making that dream come true but if they wouldn't try that makes our national football team a COWARD. What's the sense of developing the sport if we wouldn't take on chances. I say....let's all take whatever chances that would come our way who knows luck would side with us in the least expected time. GO AZKHALS!
ReplyDelete